Frustration

Question:

Sometimes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. One of my bands, The Fighting Brothers McCarthy, are playing tomorrow night. We’re pretty pumped. The last time we did a show at the Carousel Lounge, it went great. This time, we’re playing with another great band (Moonlight Towers) with whom we are great friends. We booked this show a month ago. The only thing that has changed since then is a solo act that will open up the set. Yesterday, the Austin Chonicle, our local alternative weekly, came out. They publish listings by day and club in the back. I picked up my copy this morning. We aren’t in there. Oh, the rest of the show is. The other band. The opening solo act. But not us. Grr.

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I guess that make your Band the suprise special guests!

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Our band’s name is Seventh Son (I take no responsibility for that, by the way). The venue we normally play at lists us on the marque as "Seventh Sun".  Frankly, I like it better with a "U" so I have not complained. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Sometimes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. > One of my bands, The Fighting Brothers McCarthy, are playing tomorrow > night. We’re pretty pumped. The last time we did a show at the > Carousel Lounge, it went great. This time, we’re playing with another > great band (Moonlight Towers) with whom we are great friends. > We booked this show a month ago. The only thing that has changed since > then is a solo act that will open up the set. > Yesterday, the Austin Chonicle, our local alternative weekly, came > out. They publish listings by day and club in the back. I picked up my > copy this morning. > We aren’t in there. > Oh, the rest of the show is. The other band. The opening solo act. But > not us. > Grr.

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<<Our band’s name is Seventh Son (I take no responsibility for that, by the way). The venue we normally play at lists us on the marque as "Seventh Sun".  Frankly, I like it better with a "U" so I have not complained.>> My band, Stronger Than Dirt, has been listed in ads and on marquees as: Stonger Than Dirt Stronger N Dirt Stronger Dirt Stranger Than Dirt Stronger Then Dirt I never thought three simple words would be so difficult to spell. My band’s site: www.strongerthandirt.com

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> <<Our band’s name is Seventh Son (I take no responsibility for that, by > the way). > The venue we normally play at lists us on the marque as "Seventh Sun". >  Frankly, I like it better with a "U" so I have not complained.>> > My band, Stronger Than Dirt, has been listed in ads and on marquees as: > Stonger Than Dirt > Stronger N Dirt > Stronger Dirt > Stranger Than Dirt > Stronger Then Dirt > I never thought three simple words would be so difficult to spell.

My tolerance for such things increased when I figured out that those who buy bars are often those who are tired of paying other people for the mass quantities of alcohol they routinely consume, and who enjoy the enabling environment provided by drunk people.  I’ve adjusted my expectations downward ever since.   Note: this bias applies only to _unrecovered_ alcholics.  :-) Best Regards, —   /"  ASCII Ribbon Campaign                | Todd H   /                                       | http://www.toddh.net/    X   Promoting good netiquette            | http://triplethreatband.com/   /  http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/     | "4 lines suffice."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My band, Stronger Than Dirt, has been listed in ads and on marquees as: >Stonger Than Dirt >Stronger N Dirt >Stronger Dirt >Stranger Than Dirt >Stronger Then Dirt >I never thought three simple words would be so difficult to spell. > I like "Stranger Than Dirt".  Go with it…

How about "Strangler of Dirt?" —    O< "He has Van Gogh’s ear for music." — Billy Wilder /()    ^^                                                      Slidell, LA

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> My band, Stronger Than Dirt, has been listed in ads and on marquees as: > Stonger Than Dirt > Stronger N Dirt > Stronger Dirt > Stranger Than Dirt > Stronger Then Dirt > I never thought three simple words would be so difficult to spell.

I like "Stranger Than Dirt".  Go with it… — –Llarry Amrose Eunice Benson just found out that Rust never sleeps.  Now she can’t either.

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I didn’t think ‘Blue Pearl’ was hard, but Iv’e seen -Blue Pear -Blue Peril -Blue Curl -Blue Perl Hell, Im happy when they put us above the ‘Now Hiring’ or ‘Help Wanted’ line – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Our band’s name is Seventh Son (I take no responsibility for that, by >the way). >The venue we normally play at lists us on the marque as "Seventh Sun". > Frankly, I like it better with a "U" so I have not complained. >Sometimes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. >One of my bands, The Fighting Brothers McCarthy, are playing tomorrow >night. We’re pretty pumped. The last time we did a show at the >Carousel Lounge, it went great. This time, we’re playing with another >great band (Moonlight Towers) with whom we are great friends. >We booked this show a month ago. The only thing that has changed since >then is a solo act that will open up the set. >Yesterday, the Austin Chonicle, our local alternative weekly, came >out. They publish listings by day and club in the back. I picked up my >copy this morning. >We aren’t in there. >Oh, the rest of the show is. The other band. The opening solo act. But >not us. >Grr.

– If a man among you holds no sin upon his hand, then let him cast a stone at me for playing in the band. http://www.bluepearlband.com

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Thats why I LOVE the movie, This Is Spinal Tap. They list them on a bill as Spinal Pap. Or second bill them to a puppet show. Great movie for musicians.  if you never saw it, you must! ~Mo fo

: : > <<Our band’s name is Seventh Son (I take no responsibility for that, by : > the way). : > The venue we normally play at lists us on the marque as "Seventh Sun". : >  Frankly, I like it better with a "U" so I have not complained.>> : > : > My band, Stronger Than Dirt, has been listed in ads and on marquees as: : > : > Stonger Than Dirt : > Stronger N Dirt : > Stronger Dirt : > Stranger Than Dirt : > Stronger Then Dirt : > : > I never thought three simple words would be so difficult to spell. : : My tolerance for such things increased when I figured out that those : who buy bars are often those who are tired of paying other people for : the mass quantities of alcohol they routinely consume, and who enjoy : the enabling environment provided by drunk people.  I’ve adjusted my : expectations downward ever since. : : Note: this bias applies only to _unrecovered_ alcholics.  :-) : : Best Regards, : — :   /"  ASCII Ribbon Campaign                | Todd H :   /                                       | http://www.toddh.net/ :    X   Promoting good netiquette            | http://triplethreatband.com/ :   /  http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/     | "4 lines suffice."

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: Hmmm…I know that some breeders breed Siamese who have more of an "apple" : face, to avoid the too pointy nose problem.  Are there Persian breeders who Well, they dont’ just do it to avoid the pointy nose problems. These are people like me who like the traditional siamese a lot better (and I bet they’re healthier too). Traditional siamese tend to not be quite as loud as moderns or as talkative, look healthier, don’t look like underfed rats, and are what the original Siamese standard was. : breed for a more normal look?  I’ve certainly never personally seen a : Persian that didn’t have "just ran into a hard wall" looks. Well, I have noticed degrees of flatness. Some have a small nose (those aren’t that ugly to me, no offense to Persian owners but I just don’t tlike them that much). Though the ones that supposedly get show medals usually are *flat* faced and to me look extremely ugly (they look like pugs but cats). : That sounds like a great law.  Do you know when it’s coming up for vote (or : whatever it is that’s done over there…I must admit I have little : information about other countries) I heard about that a while ago when I was still reading the dog newsgroup (they were getting up in arms about it). I have no idea what happened to it. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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<… if the person slaps the cat hard everyday as long as the cat gets a home it’s ok? Or what if makes the cat stay in a little wire cage (like a ferret)? Is it ok just cuase he’s giving the cat a home?…> Unfortunately, logic escapes you. The difference between what is written and your interpretation of those words is causing a communication problem and will always be a barrier in trying to get a point across.  You conveniently omitted "and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved)". To those who can digest information, the quoted words indicate that I mean an animal can remain in a LOVING home, not one where the creature is abused or tortured. The focus is on declawing, not cutting parts of the ears or tail off as owners of certain breed do.   Again, and for the final time, unless you offer sanctuary to ALL those stray and sheltered cats ready for adoption..the tens of thousands of cats – then you have no cause.

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:> There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe :> both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off :> soon as they are born. : I know, that’s why I said adult dog.  It’s generally not considered okay to : do so after they are adults, because it becomes a major surgery.  Though for I still disagree with it as puppies.I think breeds should not be bred where the standard includes chopping off the tail. The only somewhat valid excuse I heard was for dogs with whippy like tails taht would hurt them if they wagged it fast a lot but I know that rottwielers are born with bigger fluffy like tails where that’s not so much a problem (unless you want to argue that golden retrievers would have that problem). Sorry, but I see it as a vanity thing rather than a necessary thing so to me it’s like declawing. I’m all for the english law proposed (don’t know if it got passed) that would not allow any breed that would require surgically altering to meet the breed standard (either change teh standard or stop breeding the dog). Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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: reproduce, then the thousands of kittens who will grow up to reproduce.  So, : you twit, stop chanting about declawing. The more important situation here is : to maintain the precious lives of the cats – if that means to declaw the animal : and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved) then that will be the way it : will be. If this is to advanced for you, go to one of your former grade school Ok, devil’s advocate here. So, if the person slaps the cat hard everyday as long as the cat gets a home it’s ok? Or what if makes the cat stay in a little wire cage (like a ferret)? Is it ok just cuase he’s giving the cat a home? Or detoothing the cat (maybe he fears getting bit). That ok also as long as he is getting a home? Or what if he tortures (if you don’t consider any of the above torture) the cat for the fun of it, but he gives it shelter, that’s ok right? With the way you’re arguing, one could justify doing a lot of things to the cat just cause they happen to be giving it a home. There’s more to giving a cat a happy life than just putting a roof over its head and giving it food. Like accepting it for what it is, a cat with claws. If you cannot accept an animal for its good *AND* its bad, then find another animal you can accept. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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: Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the : cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a You know, I used to argue that but I’ve seen way too many cats in shelters that were declawed, in fact proportionatley more than the clawed ones. Seems that declawing doesn’t always keep them in the home. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>You know, I used to argue that but I’ve seen way too many cats in shelters >that were declawed, in fact proportionatley more than the clawed ones. >Seems that declawing doesn’t always keep them in the home.

That’s true, and from what the animal shelter here has said, it’s harder to adopt declawed animals, at least in this area because the people who adopt the animals, want indoor outdoor cats (alot of country) and so they don’t want a declawed animal.  Thank god it’s a no-kill shelter. Jessika WARNING!  Does not advocate the torturing of cats, dogs, hamsters,guinea pigs,flys, or any other of gods creatures for filming or animal testing… "5000 years ago, cats were treated as gods.  5000 years later they are making sure we don’t forget it"

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> Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the > cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a > certain time frame. It’s always preferable to have a cat declawed that to put > it to sleep.

Is it really?  The purpose of a shelter is to adopt animals out to a "good" home.  What is a good home?  For me, it would have to be somewhere that the animal is both loved and respected.  Declawing violates respect. Here’s a different example:  A man goes into a shelter to adopt a dog.  He tells the people straight out that his method of teaching is to beat the dog hard if it does something wrong.  The dog he has chosen is due to be put down tomorrow.  Should the shelter give him the animal?  If they do, isn’t the shelter denying its own oath?  Or is any home better than no home at all?  Why is beating a dog different than cutting off parts of a cat’s paw? If a man adopted an adult dog from the shelter only if he could cut off its tail, would you say that was right?  Even if you did, would you think that man was a "good" man? Also, the truth is that most Americans don’t seem to have any idea of what declawing actually is.  Shouldn’t the shelters imform them?  And if they still want it done…doesn’t that prove they might not be a good home for the animal, since the person doesn’t care about their pain? And as others have said, declawed cats are plentiful at shelters.  There is no reason to declaw a new cat, even if you simply MUST have only unclawed animals.  When people come to the dog newsgroups and ask for a good breeder of cockapoos or other little mixed breeds, they are always told to just go to a shelter, because there is no such things as a good breeder of a mutt dog.  Same thing applies.  If someone wanted a mixed breed dog and bred it themselves, I would consider them a very "bad" person indeed and be sad that they are adding to overpopulation.  If someone chops off parts of a cat’s paw instead of going to a shelter and getting a declawed cat…. Sethran Raven

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: all?  Why is beating a dog different than cutting off parts of a cat’s paw? : If a man adopted an adult dog from the shelter only if he could cut off its : tail, would you say that was right?  Even if you did, would you think that : man was a "good" man? There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off soon as they are born. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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> There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe > both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off > soon as they are born.

I know, that’s why I said adult dog.  It’s generally not considered okay to do so after they are adults, because it becomes a major surgery.  Though for the sake of the scenerio I’ll change it to….oh, say an adult Dane, which is a breed that doesn’t have that as part of the standard.  How many shelters would adopt if a man wanted to adopt a full grown Dane and than cut off its tail? Sethran Raven

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> I still disagree with it as puppies.I think breeds should not be bred > where the standard includes chopping off the tail. The only somewhat valid > excuse I heard was for dogs with whippy like tails taht would hurt them if > they wagged it fast a lot but I know that rottwielers are born with > bigger fluffy like tails where that’s not so much a problem (unless you > want to argue that golden retrievers would have that problem). Sorry, but > I see it as a vanity thing rather than a necessary thing so to me it’s > like declawing.

Oh, honestly, so do I.  I hate cropping even worse, because it’s more painful and takes longer to heal.  But docking is, in my opinion, not really needed and people care more about the standard than their own pet.  I guess lack of respect exists for every domestic animal.  Pretty sad, isn’t it?  :( Course, than there’s the practice of breeding dogs and cats who’s very standard requires them to be unhealthy, such as breeds with short noses. They can’t breathe right, often have to be delivered through C-section with even the best breeder, and basically aren’t like any design you’d seen in nature.  Also pretty sad…I really don’t think such breeds should be bred any longer. Sethran

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Have you told your co-worker about SoftPaws or similar brand caps that can be glued on a cat’s paws? I have put these on my cat before. They last 2-8 weeks before falling off. Longer when the cat gets used to them and stops chewing them off. Most vets carry this product, some will put them on for no charge. My local Petco also puts them on. It may not provide a defense mechanism for an indoor/outdoor cat, but it’s certainly a way to protect you and your furniture and spare the cat the pain of declawing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hi everyone >i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I >have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to >go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what >this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just >doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do >what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next >week and losing all his fingers. >thanks for letting me get that out…. >Jackie

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: Course, than there’s the practice of breeding dogs and cats who’s very : standard requires them to be unhealthy, such as breeds with short noses. Usually when they overdo breeding for a certain trait. Like Persians whose noses have gotten too flat (or vice versa Siamese whose noses have gotten way too pointy). Oh… and then there’s twisty cats *SHUDDER*. I can’t believe that woman sees nothing wrong with her "breed". Well, at least though most people at least saw the problem with what she proposed. There’s also the dog breed that can’t birth normally. : nature.  Also pretty sad…I really don’t think such breeds should be bred : any longer. Well some of them it’s more people who want to keep exagerating things to the point that it becomes very detrimental to the breed (Persians and Siamese for example). There’s a point you gotta say this is not healthy for the cat/dog and it should be stopped. Standards should never be allowed to get so drastic you have those problems. Which is why I’m full for Britain’s (once proposed?) law that you have to breed an animal that the standard doesn’t include surgery or an animal that can’t function properly. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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> Usually when they overdo breeding for a certain trait. Like Persians whose > noses have gotten too flat (or vice versa Siamese whose noses have gotten > way too pointy). Oh… and then there’s twisty cats *SHUDDER*. I can’t > believe that woman sees nothing wrong with her "breed". Well, at least > though most people at least saw the problem with what she proposed.

Hmmm…I know that some breeders breed Siamese who have more of an "apple" face, to avoid the too pointy nose problem.  Are there Persian breeders who breed for a more normal look?  I’ve certainly never personally seen a Persian that didn’t have "just ran into a hard wall" looks. There’s a point you gotta say this is not healthy > for the cat/dog and it should be stopped. Standards should never be > allowed to get so drastic you have those problems. Which is why I’m full > for Britain’s (once proposed?) law that you have to breed an animal that > the standard doesn’t include surgery or an animal that can’t function > properly.

That sounds like a great law.  Do you know when it’s coming up for vote (or whatever it is that’s done over there…I must admit I have little information about other countries) Seth

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< The purpose of a shelter is to adopt animals out to a "good" home.  What is a good home?  For me, it would have to be somewhere that the animal is both loved and respected.  Declawing violates respect> Speaking of respect, I gave it to you because there was no reason not to…’til now. I don’t know if you’re a jerk or just not able to digest information. You probably can’t understand that there are thousands of cats in the USA that are in shelters…many who are NOT adopted and are killed…Then, there are thousands of strays, a percentage of those who have reproduced or can reproduce, then the thousands of kittens who will grow up to reproduce.  So, you twit, stop chanting about declawing. The more important situation here is to maintain the precious lives of the cats – if that means to declaw the animal and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved) then that will be the way it will be. If this is to advanced for you, go to one of your former grade school teachers to have it explained in more simple terms.   <A man goes into a shelter to adopt a dog.  He tells the people straight out that his method of teaching is to beat the dog hard if it does something wrong. The dog he has chosen is due to be put down tomorrow….> I already stated that I’m not a staunch advocate of declawing, but I don’t rate it on the same level as beating a dog. Oviously, one wouldn’t recommend nor condone a beating for any reason. Declawing is a heated issue, it seams. I don’t view it as you do…and, apparently, the experts can be found on either side of the question. I assist a vet with this procedure at least 2-3 times a week.The cats go on to lead very healthy lives. They could’ve been put down, but now they’re very much alive.  You’re welcome to go on with this ’til the end of time. I’ll let you knock your head against the wall…alone!

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> *nod* I fully agree. I used to argue that cats would be better off with a > home than declawed, but I then was noticing that there was a large amount > of cats that were declawed in the shelters. Doesn’t seem to help that much > to keep the cat in a home. Since it doesn’t even do much good, why should > it be legal?

  Good point. And since there are already so many declawed kitties in the shelters, if someone absolutely HAS to have a declawed cat, they could go adopt one of those!   My two cats were strays, and my tabby Goblin was already declawed when I found him. He had some biting issues when I first took him in that I think were definitely related to this. Juliette (and Goblin and Impy!) http://63.95.185.242/juliette/newcats.html

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>hi everyone >i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I >have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to >go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what >this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just >doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do >what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next >week and losing all his fingers. >thanks for letting me get that out…. >Jackie

Kind of makes you feel like trapping her fingers in the car door doesn’t it? Thank you Jackie, for speaking up for the kitten. Jeanette remove nospam to email

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>  My greatest fear is that if this cat >should get out it won’t be able to defend itself as her other cat is an >indoor/outdoor cat.

Is this other cat declawed also?  If she plans on having another indoor/outdoor kitty, why the declawing?  If the other cat is not declawed, why would she want to declaw this new kitty?  This is so sad.  I used to declaw all my kitties because I thought it was the responsible thing to do. You know, spay/neuter/declaw.  Not a single vet (and there were several over the years) ever said their were alternatives to declawing.  I have since learned what declawing really is and I will never do it again.  Right now I have 7 declawed kitties and 6 clawed kitties.  They are all indoor only and I have absolutely no problems with my furniture being torn up.  They use the scratching posts and love being praised for doing so.  I wish I knew all of this years ago before I had my 6 cats declawed. (one was adopted already declawed) None of these cats needed to be declawed, they were kittens or young cats and never caused any damage to begin with.  I depended on my vets advice to do what was right for these kitties.  Thank goodness, this is becoming a loud issue and now people, including myself, are becoming adamately against declawing.  It doesn’t need to be made illegal in the USA, if vets would only speak up and NOT do declawing any longer.  If someone wants to declaw and ALL vets wouldn’t do it, the person would either have to teach the kitty better behavior or not have a cat. Cyndy

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> hi everyone > i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I > have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to > go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what > this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just > doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do > what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next > week and losing all his fingers. > thanks for letting me get that out…. > Jackie

hi, i know your frustration.  so does my mom actually.  my cousin got a cat and insisted on declawing him.  then got another and did the same.  then he moved and got rid of the cats, instead of being responsible and putting up the money for a pet deposit.  my mom has gizmo, the cat he had before those 2. pic of dizzy-gizzy :^) http://littleraven.homestead.com/momscats.html gizmo was 4-paw declawed.  also, my guys were declawed by a previous owner and soon given up.  is there a pattern with declawing a cat and getting rid of it?  hmmmm…. little_raven ps-at least convince her not to 4-paw declaw.  gizmo was *really* messed up when mom picked him up.  4 weeks before he would come out of the basement, another 2 before you could touch him.  he had been made completely defenseless to abuse, and he hated/feared people.  he was going to be euthanized because "they didn’t want him anymore."  so of course mom took him. — "’Oh, the boys!’ Buttercup fairly exploded.  ’I do not care about ‘the boys’!  Horse loves me and that is quite sufficient, thank you.’"–S. Morgenstern, The Princess Bride http://littleraven.homestead.com http://nabuforpresident.homestead.com http://crow1.tripod.com/webdevelopment/

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<Show you care, and then just mention how sad it is that the declawing will probably change his behavior. > Not necessarily. Doesn’t mean the cat will now bite (because he/she can’t scratch anymore.)

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<i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.> Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a certain time frame. It’s always preferable to have a cat declawed that to put it to sleep. If you have been reading the newsgroups for more than a week, you would have read the numerous posts (the debate) regarding this subject.  Not everyone is going to keep the cats’ claws intact. Ultimately, declawing is preferable to killing the kitty. The cats that are declawed (that are in loving homes) DO go on to have happy, productive lives.  

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: It is just very frustrating that she will not listen to anything i have to say : against declawing.  But..i guess some people will not learn.  Just really : makes me wish it was illegal here in the US. *nod* I fully agree. I used to argue that cats would be better off with a home than declawed, but I then was noticing that there was a large amount of cats that were declawed in the shelters. Doesn’t seem to help that much to keep the cat in a home. Since it doesn’t even do much good, why should it be legal? Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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I have to be careful as she works for me and can cause alot of trouble at work for me as this issue is not "work related".  I have explained over and over to her what declawing does to the cat, how it can cause behavioral problems, but her furniture is more important to her.  My greatest fear is that if this cat should get out it won’t be able to defend itself as her other cat is an indoor/outdoor cat. It is just very frustrating that she will not listen to anything i have to say against declawing.  But..i guess some people will not learn.  Just really makes me wish it was illegal here in the US. I can’t wait to get home and give my two clawed furballs a big kiss! Jackie

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I understand your frustration.  Have you tried just talking about how sad it would be for the cat?  Some people just *will not* accept advice from someone when they’ve made up their minds. I think maybe a more subtle reference to how sad this will be for her cat might help.  I think I’d try to bring her out a little and get her to talk about the cat she has — maybe tell some stories about his antics.  Be interested.  Show you care, and then just mention how sad it is that the declawing will probably change his behavior.  I dunno.  I hope this makes some sense.  Good luck! Eva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > hi everyone > i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I > have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to > go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what > this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just > doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do > what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next > week and losing all his fingers. > thanks for letting me get that out…. > Jackie

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hi everyone i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next week and losing all his fingers. thanks for letting me get that out…. Jackie

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: i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I : have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to : go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what : this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just : doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do Show her the bonsai kitty website. When she expresses disgust at what they’re doing, ask her how she can be disgusted when she’s about to do something along the same lines to her cat? Explain that there really is not much difference between what the bonsai cat site proposes and what she is actually going to do to her cat (surgically alter her cat for her own benefits). Of course, it’s a bit confrontational and I’m not sure how confrontational you would want to be with a coworker, but if you wouldn’t mind, I think it would get the point across quite clearly. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>How many cats do you have sharing the single Littermaid?  You may need extra >litter boxes.  People often suggest one box per cat.

Just 2, and they were littermates who’ve spent their whole lives together.  They never have misbehaved except for with this bathmat…   W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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>Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it.

Very true…   >Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you >don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower)

Tried that.  (Mainly because I threw out the old one and it took me a couple of weeks to get around to buying the new one.)  I’ve been keeping the mat hung up over the shower rod except when I’m in the shower, but the last time they used it while I was in the shower..   Bah…. >Keep the litterbox clean (maybe get rid of the motorized monstrosity) for >the two weeks and they’ll have forgotton about using a bathmat.

They actually love the Littermaid.  Its larger than their old litterbox, and they’re fascinated by the motor.  They love the fact that its always clean as well.  I don’t think that’s the problem.  They never, ever have gone anywhere else other than the bathmat (and I’ve had the Littermaid for a year and a half or so – this is very recent).   Admittedly, the bathmat is softer and more comfortable (isn’t that the point of one?) but I dunno..   W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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>It sounds like they prefer the surface texture of the bath mat to that of the litter >inside the box. Perhaps you should try a finer grained litter – soft to the touch of their >paws.

Its definitely softer  I’ve used about a dozen different litters over the past couple years trying to find the best clumping stuff.  They never seemed to care less what was in the box.  (They’ll eat any cat food too – they’re not picky.)  Right now I can’t remember the brand name, but its soft, clumping, but doesn’t have hardly any dust.  I think its made out of cedar or something.  They’ve been using it for 6 months with no complaints..   I don’t think its a physical problem as they don’t ever go on the carpet or the furniture or any of a dozen other places they could that are soft.  I went without a bath mat for a couple of weeks hoping to break them of the habit and it didn’t help. And while the bigger cat (both are girls – littermates) was the one I had actually caught peeing on the old one, it was the other one who I caught yesterday in the shower.  So both cats are doing it.   I’m so frustrated!  I hate having to walk across the bathroom dripping on the floor… W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it. > Very true… >Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you >don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower) > Tried that.  (Mainly because I threw out the old one and it took me a couple of weeks > to get around to buying the new one.)  I’ve been keeping the mat hung up over the > shower rod except when I’m in the shower, but the last time they used it while I was > in the shower..   Bah….

Why can’t you close the bathroom door while you are taking a shower?  Even if the litter box is in there, the cats should be able to control themselves for the amount of time it takes you to take a shower–at least my cats seem to have very good control. Jean B.

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When you are not using it, hang the bathmat over the shower curtain rod. It dries better that way also.                   -MIKE

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Hi Wendy, Consider all other suggestions. Here’s one more thought. Some cats react like that to bath mats with a rubber backing. I suppose it’s the smell that attracts them. If yours has a rubber backing, try a mat without a rubber backing and see if the behaviour continues. If so, then something else is going on, but it’s something to try. M.

> I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath > mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were > unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no > problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal > product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I

finally through it out. > A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the

shower, and one of the > cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat. Its soaking in a > "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m

desperate for any ideas > that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry > feet after a shower. > Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and

regularly maintained. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m so frustrated! > W > — > =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal shut down. > =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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: Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath : mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. : I’m so frustrated! Have you tried the vet? sometimes this is a cry for help from the cats. Also, maybe they just don’t want to go in that box anymore… you might have to go to a regular litter box again. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath >mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were >unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no >problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal >product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. >A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the >cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a >"cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas >that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry >feet after a shower.   >Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath >mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. >I’m so frustrated!

It sounds like they prefer the surface texture of the bath mat to that of the litter inside the box. Perhaps you should try a finer grained litter – soft to the touch of their paws. Goodluck! — elsa ^..^ http://arnhem.telekabel.nl/~c35065/louie.htm for the scoop on pee and poop: http://poop-pee.homepage.com/

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I’m assuming you keep the bath mat on the floor.  Why not just remove it from the floor and keep it draped over the edge of the tub?  Put it on the floor to use it, then hang it back on the tub edge to dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath > mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were > unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no > problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal > product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. > A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the > cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a > "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas > that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry > feet after a shower.   > Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. > I’m so frustrated! > W

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> Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. > I’m so frustrated!

How many cats do you have sharing the single Littermaid?  You may need extra litter boxes.  People often suggest one box per cat.

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>I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath >mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were >unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no >problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal >product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. >A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the >cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a >"cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas >that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry >feet after a shower.   >Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath >mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. >I’m so frustrated!

Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it. Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower) Keep the litterbox clean (maybe get rid of the motorized monstrosity) for the two weeks and they’ll have forgotton about using a bathmat.

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I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry feet after a shower.   Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. I’m so frustrated! W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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: Hmmm…I know that some breeders breed Siamese who have more of an "apple" : face, to avoid the too pointy nose problem.  Are there Persian breeders who Well, they dont’ just do it to avoid the pointy nose problems. These are people like me who like the traditional siamese a lot better (and I bet they’re healthier too). Traditional siamese tend to not be quite as loud as moderns or as talkative, look healthier, don’t look like underfed rats, and are what the original Siamese standard was. : breed for a more normal look?  I’ve certainly never personally seen a : Persian that didn’t have "just ran into a hard wall" looks. Well, I have noticed degrees of flatness. Some have a small nose (those aren’t that ugly to me, no offense to Persian owners but I just don’t tlike them that much). Though the ones that supposedly get show medals usually are *flat* faced and to me look extremely ugly (they look like pugs but cats). : That sounds like a great law.  Do you know when it’s coming up for vote (or : whatever it is that’s done over there…I must admit I have little : information about other countries) I heard about that a while ago when I was still reading the dog newsgroup (they were getting up in arms about it). I have no idea what happened to it. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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<… if the person slaps the cat hard everyday as long as the cat gets a home it’s ok? Or what if makes the cat stay in a little wire cage (like a ferret)? Is it ok just cuase he’s giving the cat a home?…> Unfortunately, logic escapes you. The difference between what is written and your interpretation of those words is causing a communication problem and will always be a barrier in trying to get a point across.  You conveniently omitted "and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved)". To those who can digest information, the quoted words indicate that I mean an animal can remain in a LOVING home, not one where the creature is abused or tortured. The focus is on declawing, not cutting parts of the ears or tail off as owners of certain breed do.   Again, and for the final time, unless you offer sanctuary to ALL those stray and sheltered cats ready for adoption..the tens of thousands of cats – then you have no cause.

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:> There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe :> both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off :> soon as they are born. : I know, that’s why I said adult dog.  It’s generally not considered okay to : do so after they are adults, because it becomes a major surgery.  Though for I still disagree with it as puppies.I think breeds should not be bred where the standard includes chopping off the tail. The only somewhat valid excuse I heard was for dogs with whippy like tails taht would hurt them if they wagged it fast a lot but I know that rottwielers are born with bigger fluffy like tails where that’s not so much a problem (unless you want to argue that golden retrievers would have that problem). Sorry, but I see it as a vanity thing rather than a necessary thing so to me it’s like declawing. I’m all for the english law proposed (don’t know if it got passed) that would not allow any breed that would require surgically altering to meet the breed standard (either change teh standard or stop breeding the dog). Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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: reproduce, then the thousands of kittens who will grow up to reproduce.  So, : you twit, stop chanting about declawing. The more important situation here is : to maintain the precious lives of the cats – if that means to declaw the animal : and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved) then that will be the way it : will be. If this is to advanced for you, go to one of your former grade school Ok, devil’s advocate here. So, if the person slaps the cat hard everyday as long as the cat gets a home it’s ok? Or what if makes the cat stay in a little wire cage (like a ferret)? Is it ok just cuase he’s giving the cat a home? Or detoothing the cat (maybe he fears getting bit). That ok also as long as he is getting a home? Or what if he tortures (if you don’t consider any of the above torture) the cat for the fun of it, but he gives it shelter, that’s ok right? With the way you’re arguing, one could justify doing a lot of things to the cat just cause they happen to be giving it a home. There’s more to giving a cat a happy life than just putting a roof over its head and giving it food. Like accepting it for what it is, a cat with claws. If you cannot accept an animal for its good *AND* its bad, then find another animal you can accept. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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: Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the : cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a You know, I used to argue that but I’ve seen way too many cats in shelters that were declawed, in fact proportionatley more than the clawed ones. Seems that declawing doesn’t always keep them in the home. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>You know, I used to argue that but I’ve seen way too many cats in shelters >that were declawed, in fact proportionatley more than the clawed ones. >Seems that declawing doesn’t always keep them in the home.

That’s true, and from what the animal shelter here has said, it’s harder to adopt declawed animals, at least in this area because the people who adopt the animals, want indoor outdoor cats (alot of country) and so they don’t want a declawed animal.  Thank god it’s a no-kill shelter. Jessika WARNING!  Does not advocate the torturing of cats, dogs, hamsters,guinea pigs,flys, or any other of gods creatures for filming or animal testing… "5000 years ago, cats were treated as gods.  5000 years later they are making sure we don’t forget it"

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> Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the > cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a > certain time frame. It’s always preferable to have a cat declawed that to put > it to sleep.

Is it really?  The purpose of a shelter is to adopt animals out to a "good" home.  What is a good home?  For me, it would have to be somewhere that the animal is both loved and respected.  Declawing violates respect. Here’s a different example:  A man goes into a shelter to adopt a dog.  He tells the people straight out that his method of teaching is to beat the dog hard if it does something wrong.  The dog he has chosen is due to be put down tomorrow.  Should the shelter give him the animal?  If they do, isn’t the shelter denying its own oath?  Or is any home better than no home at all?  Why is beating a dog different than cutting off parts of a cat’s paw? If a man adopted an adult dog from the shelter only if he could cut off its tail, would you say that was right?  Even if you did, would you think that man was a "good" man? Also, the truth is that most Americans don’t seem to have any idea of what declawing actually is.  Shouldn’t the shelters imform them?  And if they still want it done…doesn’t that prove they might not be a good home for the animal, since the person doesn’t care about their pain? And as others have said, declawed cats are plentiful at shelters.  There is no reason to declaw a new cat, even if you simply MUST have only unclawed animals.  When people come to the dog newsgroups and ask for a good breeder of cockapoos or other little mixed breeds, they are always told to just go to a shelter, because there is no such things as a good breeder of a mutt dog.  Same thing applies.  If someone wanted a mixed breed dog and bred it themselves, I would consider them a very "bad" person indeed and be sad that they are adding to overpopulation.  If someone chops off parts of a cat’s paw instead of going to a shelter and getting a declawed cat…. Sethran Raven

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: all?  Why is beating a dog different than cutting off parts of a cat’s paw? : If a man adopted an adult dog from the shelter only if he could cut off its : tail, would you say that was right?  Even if you did, would you think that : man was a "good" man? There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off soon as they are born. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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> There are dog breeds that actually put this in the standard. I believe > both Dobermans and Rottwielers are born with tails. they chop them off > soon as they are born.

I know, that’s why I said adult dog.  It’s generally not considered okay to do so after they are adults, because it becomes a major surgery.  Though for the sake of the scenerio I’ll change it to….oh, say an adult Dane, which is a breed that doesn’t have that as part of the standard.  How many shelters would adopt if a man wanted to adopt a full grown Dane and than cut off its tail? Sethran Raven

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> I still disagree with it as puppies.I think breeds should not be bred > where the standard includes chopping off the tail. The only somewhat valid > excuse I heard was for dogs with whippy like tails taht would hurt them if > they wagged it fast a lot but I know that rottwielers are born with > bigger fluffy like tails where that’s not so much a problem (unless you > want to argue that golden retrievers would have that problem). Sorry, but > I see it as a vanity thing rather than a necessary thing so to me it’s > like declawing.

Oh, honestly, so do I.  I hate cropping even worse, because it’s more painful and takes longer to heal.  But docking is, in my opinion, not really needed and people care more about the standard than their own pet.  I guess lack of respect exists for every domestic animal.  Pretty sad, isn’t it?  :( Course, than there’s the practice of breeding dogs and cats who’s very standard requires them to be unhealthy, such as breeds with short noses. They can’t breathe right, often have to be delivered through C-section with even the best breeder, and basically aren’t like any design you’d seen in nature.  Also pretty sad…I really don’t think such breeds should be bred any longer. Sethran

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Have you told your co-worker about SoftPaws or similar brand caps that can be glued on a cat’s paws? I have put these on my cat before. They last 2-8 weeks before falling off. Longer when the cat gets used to them and stops chewing them off. Most vets carry this product, some will put them on for no charge. My local Petco also puts them on. It may not provide a defense mechanism for an indoor/outdoor cat, but it’s certainly a way to protect you and your furniture and spare the cat the pain of declawing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hi everyone >i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I >have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to >go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what >this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just >doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do >what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next >week and losing all his fingers. >thanks for letting me get that out…. >Jackie

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: Course, than there’s the practice of breeding dogs and cats who’s very : standard requires them to be unhealthy, such as breeds with short noses. Usually when they overdo breeding for a certain trait. Like Persians whose noses have gotten too flat (or vice versa Siamese whose noses have gotten way too pointy). Oh… and then there’s twisty cats *SHUDDER*. I can’t believe that woman sees nothing wrong with her "breed". Well, at least though most people at least saw the problem with what she proposed. There’s also the dog breed that can’t birth normally. : nature.  Also pretty sad…I really don’t think such breeds should be bred : any longer. Well some of them it’s more people who want to keep exagerating things to the point that it becomes very detrimental to the breed (Persians and Siamese for example). There’s a point you gotta say this is not healthy for the cat/dog and it should be stopped. Standards should never be allowed to get so drastic you have those problems. Which is why I’m full for Britain’s (once proposed?) law that you have to breed an animal that the standard doesn’t include surgery or an animal that can’t function properly. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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> Usually when they overdo breeding for a certain trait. Like Persians whose > noses have gotten too flat (or vice versa Siamese whose noses have gotten > way too pointy). Oh… and then there’s twisty cats *SHUDDER*. I can’t > believe that woman sees nothing wrong with her "breed". Well, at least > though most people at least saw the problem with what she proposed.

Hmmm…I know that some breeders breed Siamese who have more of an "apple" face, to avoid the too pointy nose problem.  Are there Persian breeders who breed for a more normal look?  I’ve certainly never personally seen a Persian that didn’t have "just ran into a hard wall" looks. There’s a point you gotta say this is not healthy > for the cat/dog and it should be stopped. Standards should never be > allowed to get so drastic you have those problems. Which is why I’m full > for Britain’s (once proposed?) law that you have to breed an animal that > the standard doesn’t include surgery or an animal that can’t function > properly.

That sounds like a great law.  Do you know when it’s coming up for vote (or whatever it is that’s done over there…I must admit I have little information about other countries) Seth

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< The purpose of a shelter is to adopt animals out to a "good" home.  What is a good home?  For me, it would have to be somewhere that the animal is both loved and respected.  Declawing violates respect> Speaking of respect, I gave it to you because there was no reason not to…’til now. I don’t know if you’re a jerk or just not able to digest information. You probably can’t understand that there are thousands of cats in the USA that are in shelters…many who are NOT adopted and are killed…Then, there are thousands of strays, a percentage of those who have reproduced or can reproduce, then the thousands of kittens who will grow up to reproduce.  So, you twit, stop chanting about declawing. The more important situation here is to maintain the precious lives of the cats – if that means to declaw the animal and have he/she remain in the home (and be loved) then that will be the way it will be. If this is to advanced for you, go to one of your former grade school teachers to have it explained in more simple terms.   <A man goes into a shelter to adopt a dog.  He tells the people straight out that his method of teaching is to beat the dog hard if it does something wrong. The dog he has chosen is due to be put down tomorrow….> I already stated that I’m not a staunch advocate of declawing, but I don’t rate it on the same level as beating a dog. Oviously, one wouldn’t recommend nor condone a beating for any reason. Declawing is a heated issue, it seams. I don’t view it as you do…and, apparently, the experts can be found on either side of the question. I assist a vet with this procedure at least 2-3 times a week.The cats go on to lead very healthy lives. They could’ve been put down, but now they’re very much alive.  You’re welcome to go on with this ’til the end of time. I’ll let you knock your head against the wall…alone!

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> *nod* I fully agree. I used to argue that cats would be better off with a > home than declawed, but I then was noticing that there was a large amount > of cats that were declawed in the shelters. Doesn’t seem to help that much > to keep the cat in a home. Since it doesn’t even do much good, why should > it be legal?

  Good point. And since there are already so many declawed kitties in the shelters, if someone absolutely HAS to have a declawed cat, they could go adopt one of those!   My two cats were strays, and my tabby Goblin was already declawed when I found him. He had some biting issues when I first took him in that I think were definitely related to this. Juliette (and Goblin and Impy!) http://63.95.185.242/juliette/newcats.html

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>hi everyone >i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I >have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to >go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what >this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just >doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do >what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next >week and losing all his fingers. >thanks for letting me get that out…. >Jackie

Kind of makes you feel like trapping her fingers in the car door doesn’t it? Thank you Jackie, for speaking up for the kitten. Jeanette remove nospam to email

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>  My greatest fear is that if this cat >should get out it won’t be able to defend itself as her other cat is an >indoor/outdoor cat.

Is this other cat declawed also?  If she plans on having another indoor/outdoor kitty, why the declawing?  If the other cat is not declawed, why would she want to declaw this new kitty?  This is so sad.  I used to declaw all my kitties because I thought it was the responsible thing to do. You know, spay/neuter/declaw.  Not a single vet (and there were several over the years) ever said their were alternatives to declawing.  I have since learned what declawing really is and I will never do it again.  Right now I have 7 declawed kitties and 6 clawed kitties.  They are all indoor only and I have absolutely no problems with my furniture being torn up.  They use the scratching posts and love being praised for doing so.  I wish I knew all of this years ago before I had my 6 cats declawed. (one was adopted already declawed) None of these cats needed to be declawed, they were kittens or young cats and never caused any damage to begin with.  I depended on my vets advice to do what was right for these kitties.  Thank goodness, this is becoming a loud issue and now people, including myself, are becoming adamately against declawing.  It doesn’t need to be made illegal in the USA, if vets would only speak up and NOT do declawing any longer.  If someone wants to declaw and ALL vets wouldn’t do it, the person would either have to teach the kitty better behavior or not have a cat. Cyndy

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> hi everyone > i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I > have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to > go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what > this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just > doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do > what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next > week and losing all his fingers. > thanks for letting me get that out…. > Jackie

hi, i know your frustration.  so does my mom actually.  my cousin got a cat and insisted on declawing him.  then got another and did the same.  then he moved and got rid of the cats, instead of being responsible and putting up the money for a pet deposit.  my mom has gizmo, the cat he had before those 2. pic of dizzy-gizzy :^) http://littleraven.homestead.com/momscats.html gizmo was 4-paw declawed.  also, my guys were declawed by a previous owner and soon given up.  is there a pattern with declawing a cat and getting rid of it?  hmmmm…. little_raven ps-at least convince her not to 4-paw declaw.  gizmo was *really* messed up when mom picked him up.  4 weeks before he would come out of the basement, another 2 before you could touch him.  he had been made completely defenseless to abuse, and he hated/feared people.  he was going to be euthanized because "they didn’t want him anymore."  so of course mom took him. — "’Oh, the boys!’ Buttercup fairly exploded.  ’I do not care about ‘the boys’!  Horse loves me and that is quite sufficient, thank you.’"–S. Morgenstern, The Princess Bride http://littleraven.homestead.com http://nabuforpresident.homestead.com http://crow1.tripod.com/webdevelopment/

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<Show you care, and then just mention how sad it is that the declawing will probably change his behavior. > Not necessarily. Doesn’t mean the cat will now bite (because he/she can’t scratch anymore.)

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<i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.> Perhaps the person wouldn’t have a cat if the cat wasn’t declawed. Perhaps the cat would be put to sleep at a kill shelter because he/she wasn’t adopted in a certain time frame. It’s always preferable to have a cat declawed that to put it to sleep. If you have been reading the newsgroups for more than a week, you would have read the numerous posts (the debate) regarding this subject.  Not everyone is going to keep the cats’ claws intact. Ultimately, declawing is preferable to killing the kitty. The cats that are declawed (that are in loving homes) DO go on to have happy, productive lives.  

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: It is just very frustrating that she will not listen to anything i have to say : against declawing.  But..i guess some people will not learn.  Just really : makes me wish it was illegal here in the US. *nod* I fully agree. I used to argue that cats would be better off with a home than declawed, but I then was noticing that there was a large amount of cats that were declawed in the shelters. Doesn’t seem to help that much to keep the cat in a home. Since it doesn’t even do much good, why should it be legal? Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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I have to be careful as she works for me and can cause alot of trouble at work for me as this issue is not "work related".  I have explained over and over to her what declawing does to the cat, how it can cause behavioral problems, but her furniture is more important to her.  My greatest fear is that if this cat should get out it won’t be able to defend itself as her other cat is an indoor/outdoor cat. It is just very frustrating that she will not listen to anything i have to say against declawing.  But..i guess some people will not learn.  Just really makes me wish it was illegal here in the US. I can’t wait to get home and give my two clawed furballs a big kiss! Jackie

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I understand your frustration.  Have you tried just talking about how sad it would be for the cat?  Some people just *will not* accept advice from someone when they’ve made up their minds. I think maybe a more subtle reference to how sad this will be for her cat might help.  I think I’d try to bring her out a little and get her to talk about the cat she has — maybe tell some stories about his antics.  Be interested.  Show you care, and then just mention how sad it is that the declawing will probably change his behavior.  I dunno.  I hope this makes some sense.  Good luck! Eva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > hi everyone > i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I > have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to > go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what > this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just > doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do > what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next > week and losing all his fingers. > thanks for letting me get that out…. > Jackie

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hi everyone i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do what i say….but I can’t stand the idea of that poor baby going in next week and losing all his fingers. thanks for letting me get that out…. Jackie

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: i’m just writing to get out some frustration i’m feeling right now.  I : have a co-worker who just got a kitten about 6 months ago, he is due to : go in for neutering and…get this..declawing.  I have told her what : this entails, i have shown her the anti-declaw websites and she just : doesn’t care.  This is so frustrating as I can’t make a grown woman do Show her the bonsai kitty website. When she expresses disgust at what they’re doing, ask her how she can be disgusted when she’s about to do something along the same lines to her cat? Explain that there really is not much difference between what the bonsai cat site proposes and what she is actually going to do to her cat (surgically alter her cat for her own benefits). Of course, it’s a bit confrontational and I’m not sure how confrontational you would want to be with a coworker, but if you wouldn’t mind, I think it would get the point across quite clearly. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>How many cats do you have sharing the single Littermaid?  You may need extra >litter boxes.  People often suggest one box per cat.

Just 2, and they were littermates who’ve spent their whole lives together.  They never have misbehaved except for with this bathmat…   W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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>Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it.

Very true…   >Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you >don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower)

Tried that.  (Mainly because I threw out the old one and it took me a couple of weeks to get around to buying the new one.)  I’ve been keeping the mat hung up over the shower rod except when I’m in the shower, but the last time they used it while I was in the shower..   Bah…. >Keep the litterbox clean (maybe get rid of the motorized monstrosity) for >the two weeks and they’ll have forgotton about using a bathmat.

They actually love the Littermaid.  Its larger than their old litterbox, and they’re fascinated by the motor.  They love the fact that its always clean as well.  I don’t think that’s the problem.  They never, ever have gone anywhere else other than the bathmat (and I’ve had the Littermaid for a year and a half or so – this is very recent).   Admittedly, the bathmat is softer and more comfortable (isn’t that the point of one?) but I dunno..   W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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>It sounds like they prefer the surface texture of the bath mat to that of the litter >inside the box. Perhaps you should try a finer grained litter – soft to the touch of their >paws.

Its definitely softer  I’ve used about a dozen different litters over the past couple years trying to find the best clumping stuff.  They never seemed to care less what was in the box.  (They’ll eat any cat food too – they’re not picky.)  Right now I can’t remember the brand name, but its soft, clumping, but doesn’t have hardly any dust.  I think its made out of cedar or something.  They’ve been using it for 6 months with no complaints..   I don’t think its a physical problem as they don’t ever go on the carpet or the furniture or any of a dozen other places they could that are soft.  I went without a bath mat for a couple of weeks hoping to break them of the habit and it didn’t help. And while the bigger cat (both are girls – littermates) was the one I had actually caught peeing on the old one, it was the other one who I caught yesterday in the shower.  So both cats are doing it.   I’m so frustrated!  I hate having to walk across the bathroom dripping on the floor… W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it. > Very true… >Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you >don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower) > Tried that.  (Mainly because I threw out the old one and it took me a couple of weeks > to get around to buying the new one.)  I’ve been keeping the mat hung up over the > shower rod except when I’m in the shower, but the last time they used it while I was > in the shower..   Bah….

Why can’t you close the bathroom door while you are taking a shower?  Even if the litter box is in there, the cats should be able to control themselves for the amount of time it takes you to take a shower–at least my cats seem to have very good control. Jean B.

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When you are not using it, hang the bathmat over the shower curtain rod. It dries better that way also.                   -MIKE

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Hi Wendy, Consider all other suggestions. Here’s one more thought. Some cats react like that to bath mats with a rubber backing. I suppose it’s the smell that attracts them. If yours has a rubber backing, try a mat without a rubber backing and see if the behaviour continues. If so, then something else is going on, but it’s something to try. M.

> I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath > mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were > unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no > problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal > product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I

finally through it out. > A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the

shower, and one of the > cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat. Its soaking in a > "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m

desperate for any ideas > that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry > feet after a shower. > Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and

regularly maintained. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m so frustrated! > W > — > =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal shut down. > =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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: Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath : mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. : I’m so frustrated! Have you tried the vet? sometimes this is a cry for help from the cats. Also, maybe they just don’t want to go in that box anymore… you might have to go to a regular litter box again. Tigress — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation.  People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it.  Makes ‘em testy. …Bev     |    _,,,—,,_          Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat by Felix Lee.

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>I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath >mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were >unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no >problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal >product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. >A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the >cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a >"cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas >that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry >feet after a shower.   >Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath >mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. >I’m so frustrated!

It sounds like they prefer the surface texture of the bath mat to that of the litter inside the box. Perhaps you should try a finer grained litter – soft to the touch of their paws. Goodluck! — elsa ^..^ http://arnhem.telekabel.nl/~c35065/louie.htm for the scoop on pee and poop: http://poop-pee.homepage.com/

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I’m assuming you keep the bath mat on the floor.  Why not just remove it from the floor and keep it draped over the edge of the tub?  Put it on the floor to use it, then hang it back on the tub edge to dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath > mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were > unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no > problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal > product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. > A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the > cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a > "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas > that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry > feet after a shower.   > Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. > I’m so frustrated! > W

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> Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath > mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. > I’m so frustrated!

How many cats do you have sharing the single Littermaid?  You may need extra litter boxes.  People often suggest one box per cat.

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>I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath >mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were >unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no >problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal >product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. >A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the >cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a >"cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas >that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry >feet after a shower.   >Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath >mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. >I’m so frustrated!

Sounds like they just got in the habbit of using it. Get rid of it;  do without it for about two weeks (just toss a towel you don’t really care about on the floor for when you step out of the shower) Keep the litterbox clean (maybe get rid of the motorized monstrosity) for the two weeks and they’ll have forgotton about using a bathmat.

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I find myself beating my head against a wall regularly dealing with my cats and a bath mat.  A while back, one day the Littermaid litterbox I have jammed, the cats were unhappy about that, and they peed on the bath mat.  I understood that, and it was no problem.  Unfortunately, after numerous washings, using every cat urine removal product that I could find, they still would pee on it.  So I finally through it out. A few weeks later, I just bought a new one.  Came out of the shower, and one of the cats had defecated on it this morning.  This was a brand new mat.  Its soaking in a "cat urine removal" product right now in the washer, but I’m desperate for any ideas that might allow me to use a bath mat again.  I really like being able to have dry feet after a shower.   Any suggestions at all?  They never go outside the litterbox except when I have a bath mat there.  The box is a Littermaid, so its self-cleaning and regularly maintained. I’m so frustrated! W — =-          Wendy Faulkner             =- Micro$oft has performed an illegal =- http://www.eco.utexas.edu/~faulkner =-

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>Okay you all, >     for 2 days yahoo will not let me get to my >Or is it me??

Yahoo is too busy making money to make sure their servers work properly. >I was expecting to feel better…happier,….or some kind of good >feeling when I quit smoking.  I was even paying attention to the mania >scale I keep in my head.  I am not getting those feelings.  I am >feeling mucky, stuck in the mud depression.  

You psyche yourself up to quit…you do it…and life doesn’t magically change, of course, so you are left with the vacuum that follows any anticipated event… >Not really the killer >kind…..just the black cloud surrounding my entire head and affecting >my "sight" kind.  And then there are the stupid, time consuming, >bothersome tears.  This I hate the most, the crying.  And it is >reasonless, crying.  Like I have all these water balloons of tears in >my body and out of nowhere one pops…then comes burning up into my >eyes, and presto! she’s crying again.  

There are much worse things than crying…like not being able to cry, for one. Crying lets you know that you are a human being who is able to feel… >Psychological withdraw from not >lighting up?  Real depression….well, not real, but >Manic-Depressionish depression?  Or situational?  Do you think it is >okay to allow myself to cry and be mad at this whole thing? >Furious!!!?  Can I bust something up, punch my walls, scorch my >clothes, break some glass, fall into a little ball and >(the reason I am so afraid to call the pdoc is because I feel like if >I even talk about this with anyone but you guys, I am going to be lost >in the world of nervous breakdown.  because I have been doing so >friggin well for the last few years, after years and years of hell, I >just feel like going to see him will open the door back to that scary, >sad, not knowing reality world) but maybe I will anyway.

So open the door and take a peek. It will remind you of how far you’ve come…might hurt a little but that’s just grieving for the old you, for what could have been/should have been/would have been…and you have to mourn the "you that could/would/should have been" to get all that out of the way of the "you that will be"… If you need to see the doc…go. It is a sign of strength to admit the need for help… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(ZnO) >-A-brittledeep-redhexagonalmineral >occurring in MASSIVE or granular form. >sad, furious, oxygenated, growling zinc

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Its ok to be depressed. It may that a good part of it is situational. Sort of "mourning" for what you gave up.  Another part may be you’re cycling down.  Cry if you need to, but the other things you mentioned could be dangerous.  Are you using any stop-smoking aid?  If things get too bad, by all means call your pdoc. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Okay you all, >     for 2 days yahoo will not let me get to my >Or is it me?? >I was expecting to feel better…happier,….or some kind of good >feeling when I quit smoking.  I was even paying attention to the mania >scale I keep in my head.  I am not getting those feelings.  I am >feeling mucky, stuck in the mud depression.  Not really the killer >kind…..just the black cloud surrounding my entire head and affecting >my "sight" kind.  And then there are the stupid, time consuming, >bothersome tears.  This I hate the most, the crying.  And it is >reasonless, crying.  Like I have all these water balloons of tears in >my body and out of nowhere one pops…then comes burning up into my >eyes, and presto! she’s crying again.  Psychological withdraw from not >lighting up?  Real depression….well, not real, but >Manic-Depressionish depression?  Or situational?  Do you think it is >okay to allow myself to cry and be mad at this whole thing? >Furious!!!?  Can I bust something up, punch my walls, scorch my >clothes, break some glass, fall into a little ball and >(the reason I am so afraid to call the pdoc is because I feel like if >I even talk about this with anyone but you guys, I am going to be lost >in the world of nervous breakdown.  because I have been doing so >friggin well for the last few years, after years and years of hell, I >just feel like going to see him will open the door back to that scary, >sad, not knowing reality world) but maybe I will anyway. >(ZnO) >-A-brittledeep-redhexagonalmineral >occurring in MASSIVE or granular form. >sad, furious, oxygenated, growling zinc

Response:

I wish I had something else to say besides I hope things get better and you know that I am only an email away. hugs — -judy ***To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be the world.***

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay you all, >      for 2 days yahoo will not let me get to my > Or is it me?? > I was expecting to feel better…happier,….or some kind of good > feeling when I quit smoking.  I was even paying attention to the mania > scale I keep in my head.  I am not getting those feelings.  I am > feeling mucky, stuck in the mud depression.  Not really the killer > kind…..just the black cloud surrounding my entire head and affecting > my "sight" kind.  And then there are the stupid, time consuming, > bothersome tears.  This I hate the most, the crying.  And it is > reasonless, crying.  Like I have all these water balloons of tears in > my body and out of nowhere one pops…then comes burning up into my > eyes, and presto! she’s crying again.  Psychological withdraw from not > lighting up?  Real depression….well, not real, but > Manic-Depressionish depression?  Or situational?  Do you think it is > okay to allow myself to cry and be mad at this whole thing? > Furious!!!?  Can I bust something up, punch my walls, scorch my > clothes, break some glass, fall into a little ball and > (the reason I am so afraid to call the pdoc is because I feel like if > I even talk about this with anyone but you guys, I am going to be lost > in the world of nervous breakdown.  because I have been doing so > friggin well for the last few years, after years and years of hell, I > just feel like going to see him will open the door back to that scary, > sad, not knowing reality world) but maybe I will anyway. > (ZnO) > -A-brittledeep-redhexagonalmineral > occurring in MASSIVE or granular form. > sad, furious, oxygenated, growling zinc

Response:

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